Just helped a friend move his new boat up from Troon to Helensburgh (Itchen Ferry 25)
I was really surprised at the wide angle between gybes. Why would this be? Like my boat it has the old-fashioned round boom reefing setup- so no proper kicking strap. However it also has a very high cut genoa. Any ideas to reduc the angle between gybes or is this just another example of what excellent boats Albin Vegas are?
JohnBuch wrote:Just helped a friend move his new boat up from Troon to Helensburgh (Itchen Ferry 25)
I was really surprised at the wide angle between gybes. Why would this be? Like my boat it has the old-fashioned round boom reefing setup- so no proper kicking strap. However it also has a very high cut genoa. Any ideas to reduc the angle between gybes or is this just another example of what excellent boats Albin Vegas are?
Yup it was redwing - where does the name come from (the sails?). I really do mean gybing angle. On the Vega you can run downwind under genny alone at a fairly wide eange of angles - I've never measured it but possibly 60 degrees - on the Itchen Ferry felt like about 100 degrees.
Clyde_Wanderer wrote:
JohnBuch wrote:Just helped a friend move his new boat up from Troon to Helensburgh (Itchen Ferry 25)
I was really surprised at the wide angle between gybes. Why would this be? Like my boat it has the old-fashioned round boom reefing setup- so no proper kicking strap. However it also has a very high cut genoa. Any ideas to reduc the angle between gybes or is this just another example of what excellent boats Albin Vegas are?
JohnBuch wrote:Yup it was redwing - where does the name come from (the sails?). I really do mean gybing angle. On the Vega you can run downwind under genny alone at a fairly wide eange of angles - I've never measured it but possibly 60 degrees - on the Itchen Ferry felt like about 100 degrees.
Clyde_Wanderer wrote:
JohnBuch wrote:Just helped a friend move his new boat up from Troon to Helensburgh (Itchen Ferry 25)
I was really surprised at the wide angle between gybes. Why would this be? Like my boat it has the old-fashioned round boom reefing setup- so no proper kicking strap. However it also has a very high cut genoa. Any ideas to reduc the angle between gybes or is this just another example of what excellent boats Albin Vegas are?
John
Would that happen to be "Red Wing you" were on?
John, I know the guy who owned it previously, and yes I think the name came from the sails, but bear with me a day or two and I will roger that for you.
C_W
JohnBuch wrote:On the Vega you can run downwind under genny alone at a fairly wide eange of angles - I've never measured it but possibly 60 degrees - on the Itchen Ferry felt like about 100 degrees.
It's probably my pre-senile dementia but I'm having great difficulty understanding this if you are running downwind under genoa. Can you draw a diagram? Which vectors form the 60 and 100 degree angles you mention?
Equally confused. Running downwind under genoa alone it is usually not possible to sail as much 'by the lee' as when running downwind with main, but we can usually have the wind about ten degrees on the 'wrong' side before we have to gybe the genny.
We can also sail upwind fairly efficiently on a close reach, so our 'gybing angle' is from (say) 50deg to 190deg - but I am not entirely sure if this is what you mean.
I'm not familiar with either of these boats, but a big factor has to be the spreader angle. With a masthead rig and in line spreaders the main can be let out fully, i.e. making the boom angle almost 90 degrees, before the main wraps round the spreader excessively. This will allow (in a steady breeze) sailing directly down wind (or even a little by the lee if you're feeling gallus) so it should be possible to gybe without changing course at all. i.e. zero gybing angle.
With a fractional rig and swept back spreaders, however, the main can't realistically be let out nearly so far, so sailing directly down wind is less efficient (less projected mainsail area) and decidedly riskier. Hence the need for a gybing angle.
It is, however, important to distinguish between real and apparant wind direction. Even a quite large gybe angle as per apparent wind shows up as a much smaller angle on the COG track. And, of course, most polar diagrams show a very broad reach to be faster downwind than a dead run anyway...
Thanks Dave - I think you've cracked it. When I think about it the Itchen had spreaders and shrouds coming ack furthe than on the Vega. I think that the lack of a kicking stap probably adds to the problem by allowing more tist in the main and the 'belly' of the sail coming further forward.
Cheers
John
Hope this now makes some kind of sense to others now!
Rowana has straight spreaders, but also forward and aft lowers. It means that I can't let out the main too far before it comes against the aft lowers. If the wind is aft of about a beam reach, I just forget the main and go with the genny only. Going dead downwind, I keep the wind about 10-15deg to one side to prevent inadvertant gybes.
BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE CRACKED,
FOR THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LET IN THE LIGHT
I don't understand either.
We've got 4 lowers and can sail by the lee. Does the boat take control and gripe up itself?
Maybe its sail is too big for its rudder. (what was the windspeed.....!)
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.
Bill
Would you agree that it is much more restful to sail goosewinged by the lee rather than broad reach - our genoa gets blanketed by the main quite soon after the wind has gone beyond the beam.
Ha - my avatar shows our preferred angle - unless of course being wooshed alang by that big fine grey spinnaker of ours
Absolutely John, and always have done - don't have a pole, you see.
I recall raised eyebrows from Mr RYA during the ICC exam, but can't understand what all the waffle is about -
as long as the sail area is commensurate with the wind and seastate.
I did own an IOR thingy at one time which had a mind of it's own and could be quite awesome if it decided to carry on through the gybe and wheech upwind, but then again SWIAR does blame me for not reefing early enough.
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.
John, I emailed the previous owner of RW.
He came up with the name for 2 reasons, one been the red sails and tother been the fact that he saw a red winged bird (feathered type) while he was pondering the name and that was the deciding factor.
C_W
