BLUEMOMENT

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Was sailing a ketch rigged Mirage 37 today. A big slightly tubby looking boat, she sails remarkably well. It was only from Loch Creran to Connel, and was done almost entirely under main and mizzen. On a beam reach across to Connell she made 5.5 - 6 knots in 16-18 knots true under this rig, perfectly balanced.

She also hove to very nicely under mizzen alone in 22 knots of wind when we turned the Tinker Tramp we were foolishly towing into a submarnie and had to rescue it, providing a wonderfully stable platform to work on.

I would definitely consider a ketch if looking for a bigger boat.

Nick wrote:.
Was sailing a ketch rigged Mirage 37 today. A big slightly tubby looking boat, she sails remarkably well. It was only from Loch Creran to Connel, and was done almost entirely under main and mizzen. On a beam reach across to Connell she made 5.5 - 6 knots in 16-18 knots true under this rig, perfectly balanced.

She also hove to very nicely under mizzen alone in 22 knots of wind when we turned the Tinker Tramp we were foolishly towing into a submarnie and had to rescue it, providing a wonderfully stable platform to work on.

I would definitely consider a ketch if looking for a bigger boat.

For some reason I assumed Thames Marine only did the Mirage 280 and Leisure 27s. Every day's a school day.

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I don't think they made very many.

Interesting. I've wondered about ketches - a cutter rigged ketch would give a very flexible sail plan. How do they sail into wind? I've heard that they're not as close to wind as Bermudian rigs.

Shard wrote:Interesting. I've wondered about ketches - a cutter rigged ketch would give a very flexible sail plan. How do they sail into wind? I've heard that they're not as close to wind as Bermudian rigs.

Close hauled the mizzen gets back-winded by the air coming off the leach of the mainsail and so doesn't provide any power. Nothing to stop you dropping the mizzen and just using the main and genoa though I guess.

Before we bought the Fat Boat, we considered ketches in general (no boat in particular came available during the search). They do look good I feel and separating the sails into more, smaller pieces makes sense for ageing crew who are less strong than they used to be.

But two aphorisms were brought to my attention:
"Nobody buys a second ketch." Is this true? I don't know anybody who bought a first.
"Twice as much rigging for poorer windward performance." There's definitely a lot more rigging though not twice as much.

Derek

Shard wrote:Interesting. I've wondered about ketches - a cutter rigged ketch would give a very flexible sail plan. How do they sail into wind? I've heard that they're not as close to wind as Bermudian rigs.

I've sailed a lot on large ketches (sail training) and I'd agree that they may be a little less close winded then a sloop or cutter rig, although a lot of that will depend on hull form and the overall size of the sailplan. The great thing is the flexibility, and the relatively larger number of smaller sails means each individual sail is that much easier to handle.
On a cutter-headed ketch it's common to sail in heavy weather with a staysail and mizzen which will allow you to make progress to windward but without too much heeling or stress on the rig. Also a good sailplan for sailing slowly in lighter winds if you want to anchor under sail for example. I'm definitely a fan.

Slightly off the plot but a school I used to work in had a drascombe. We used to take it out with the jib and mizzen up in strong winds you could sail when nothing else could

claymore wrote:Slightly off the plot but a school I used to work in had a drascombe. We used to take it out with the jib and mizzen up in strong winds you could sail when nothing else could

I think that is technically a yawl . . .

Nick wrote:

claymore wrote:Slightly off the plot but a school I used to work in had a drascombe. We used to take it out with the jib and mizzen up in strong winds you could sail when nothing else could

I think that is technically a yawn . . .

Well, I didn't think it was boring.

Idiot

Its the same principle - a headsail and an alternative to a main


Idiot

claymore wrote:Idiot

Its the same principle - a headsail and an alternative to a main


Idiot

Not again - leave poor Shard alone . . .

I enjoy mine. SR is a Westerly Pentland ketch (31') with bilge keels, as you may guess I don't give a damn about racing. The mizzen needs to be trimmed slightly tighter than the main & at only 70sq ft gives a surprising amount of drive. You notice the difference when you furl it. The rig is easy to balance & the short stumpy masts & stout rigging are greatly over specified - she still has all her original 1973 rig.

The Genny I have is off a sloop & a little too big, so she points better with a couple of rolls in her. I just love the look of the rig, and I have sailed her on genny & mizzen a few times in very strong winds, she isn't quite as close winded then, but few boats are when reefed in strong winds are they? I ahve sailed her into small docks & onto moorings using genny & mizzen & the genny acts as a throttle while still giving you the ability to sail on all points.

Would I have another? Of course I would, but I doubt I will be lucky enough to find one next time I look. BTW I have had SR for over 15 years & still enjoy her & her rig. One day I shall sort out a mizzen staysail & then the benefits of the rig will be clear - as long as I'm not short tacking!

Just cos it's different doesn't mean it's bad you know.

Bampot.

claymore wrote:Idiot

Its the same principle - a headsail and an alternative to a main


Idiot

Daft bampot.