BLUEMOMENT

Hi,

I've had my arm twisted to doing this this year (sailing not running I hasten to add...)

I've got the charts and tidal atlases and Clyde CC guides etc, but as a stranger to those waters I was wondering if anybody had any tips, pearls of wisdom etc they were willing to share.

Looks to me like the Sound of Luing and Mull of Kintyre are the 2 major obstacles - at least in terms of tides which I guess you don't get much choice over. I tried telling the runners they had 1.5 hrs for the Paps of Jura or they would mess up the passage plan - but I didn't quite understand the reply ....

I've dived the Corryvreckan (at slack!) a few years ago - so don't intend going anywhere near that in a sailing boat.

Particularly curious a to what conditions make the Mull uncomfortable / plain stupid (all the guides say it can get bumpy - but of course don't really quantify this - i.e. does a force 4,6 or 8 make it worth giving it a wide berth (how wide?) vs the "inner passage") - 36ft solid (read old and heavy!) cruiser racer.

Aiming on staying up for a couple of months after the race - pottering on the W coast with the family - so may well be bothering you all in the future for more local advice.

Many Thanks
James

.
The Mull needs a couple of hours of fair tide minimum to get you from Sanda Sound to just past the light, where the stream weakens considerably. Sea conditions are usually only really nasty with wind over tide. In moderate conditions (up to F4-5) keeping close inshore will keep you out of the main tide race. In fog I have heard of boats followeing the 20m contour - so you can stay well inshore, almost where you can touch the cliffs. If you go outside the tide race in bad weather you need to go 5 miles off, which puts you in the TSS - although traffic is usually light.

The Sound of Jura is also known as the 'Sound of Disappointment' - tides run at two knots at Springs, more at the N. end, so bear this in mind when passage planning.

The Sound of Luing has tidal streams running at up to six knots, but the strongest stream is only the top mile or so as you approach Fladda. With a good wind you could probably get through at or around neaps against the tide.

Many local boats go through the Corryvreckan regularly at slack water and don't find it a problem. Just make sure you have calculated slack water correctly.

Have fun, and welcome to the forum.

- W

Thanks Nick,

Thats useful - just trying to work out what you might try and sail against - and what you might as well give up and anchor and wait for the tide.

Obviously depends on the wind, but given that its a race passage planning goes out the window a bit - as to some extent you get there when you get there - wind and runners permitting - just need to sort out options and I'm sure local knowledge counts for a lot !

Race starts Fri 16th - so should be neapish

You're welcome to my one pearl of wisdom.....

A friend of mine heard that there was a problem at the start, in that the boats have to anchor, close inshore in Oban Bay, awaiting their runners. The bottom is foul with generations of discarded fishing gear, and many would get their anchors ''hooked', which made for a staggered start.

The tide stream is weak around there, so s/he cadged a square of heavy old fishing net, which s/he made into a big 'purse' with a doubled mooring warp through the top. This purse s/he filled with rocks - maybe a hundred pounds or so - and lowered that to the seabed in lieu of a digging anchor, close inshore, prior to the start.

When the runners had been ferried out, it was but a moment's work to slip the doubled warp, leaving the stones and netting still on the seabed - and simply sail away while others were struggling with hooked hawsers, otter boards, ground chains and supermarket trolleys.

Sneaky, huh?

Nick wrote:.

The Sound of Jura is also known as the 'Sound of Disappointment' - tides run at two knots at Springs, more at the N. end, so bear this in mind when passage planning.

- W

Just to expand on that slightly: the "strong tides zone" really starts at the N. end of the Sd of Jura as it narrows. On the SE side the Dorus Mor at Craignish Point is a famous tidal gate, but the tide on the NW side, while slightly less and probably the better option if an attempt against foul tide is insisted on, also runs fast.

All advice gratefully received.

Dave - we hope to be overnighting at Craobh on the way up this week

Thanks

James

Please don't be offended, but if you hadn't already noted in admiralty NM's Bono rock buoy, at the north of the sound of luing has recently been moved.
See here:
http://www.nmwebsearch.com/XML/NMSelection1979.pdf

Have fun, hope its not as "exciting" as last year!

Steve

Thanks Steve,

I could easily have missed that - except the organisers emailed it out - so no excuses now

I gather last year was quite exciting - if brief - one of our runners (and the one who is to blame for all this) has taken part for the last couple of years

Hi
Forget about passage planning or which route to take as the windstrength and direction as well as the progress of your runners will dictate everything.
The tidal gate where all will be lost or won will be at Pladda at the top end of the Sound of Luing. Get there and meet a flood tide and you are stuffed for an hour or two unless there is sufficient breeze - preferably from the North to get you through there. We were sailing backwards with the spinnaker drawing well but boatspeed of 5 knots didn't compare with the 6 knots of tide.
Jura - you just gets what you gets - nip in through the top opening and out of the Sound when you are approaching Craighouse if the tide is foul there.
Mull - whatever. The inside passage if the tide is with you is great otherwise it's just a big wet bouncy old bash. Once past Sanda there is so little tide that you tend not to bother about it - its just a matter of getting the runners onto Arran and then over to Troon.
Have a good race and drink plenty of water!
We'd a cracking start once - the boat was right over at the starboard end of the line as we'd worked out that the runners could leg it along the prom faster than we would be sailing ( light airs)
Don't knacker yourself on the first leg by trying to row yourself ahead if its light.
Going up the sound of Mull - there's loads of room inside the Island - forgotten its name Eilean .....and if you go out there is more tide so depends whether its with you or against.

Oars can be handy getting you out of oban bay if there is absolutly no wind. Half hour of rowing can make all the difference if it gets you to where the wind is.
1.5 hours for the paps?? No chance see previous times
http://www.sipr.zetnet.co.uk/resrun_2006.htm

Don't see any reason to have a problem with anchoring in oban bay. you can drop the runners, sail or motor around. The first run should only take about 40 mins. You pick the runners up under engine power and keep engine on until well away from the pick up point.
Do you have a full crew?

good luck.

No - they reckon they might do it in 4 hrs if all goes well - reckon thats why I got such a strangled response when I said it would be really helpful if the could pick their feet up and do it in 1.5 hrs

Mind you that was assuming decent boat speed upto that point - which I suspect was optimistic ...

Mind you if they dawdle up Ben More as well the timetable will be well and truely shot by then anyway ...

Actually - better start behaving in case they read this - they started getting their own back by asking who was going to run if one of them got injured - crew not none for being the silent type suddenly had very little to say as they rapidly shuffled off

Actually I don't reckon the timetable will last till we leave Oban bay (especialliy if we are rowing!) - but it was a good excercise.

Booby - we have 3 sailing (and not running - its in their contracts!) and 2 runners - which I believe is a full crew. Why were you offering ?

I could be tempted if the right offer came along
I have done it twice before.
If you have 3 sailors 2 runners then that is the max allowed. If you get any last minute call offs let me know.
I sure you will not be dissapointed it is a fantastic event.

Ian

I don't reckon the timetable will last till we leave Oban bay

"No plan survives first contact with the enemy" - von Moltke, or was it Rab C?