BLUEMOMENT

Nick wrote:You seem to think I am advocating this as normal sail trim.

I don't think you advocated it, but I do think you said that either Dinghies or Yachts would both sail dead downwind sheeted right in.

Nick wrote:What were you trying to do when you tried sailing downwind with the boom centred 'in a decent wind and sea' ? Seems like an odd thing to do.

The Owner felt it was 'safer' to centre the main on the approach to Brighton. It was obvious it was going to change a comfortable, fast, controllable downwind surfing sail into a nightmare of wallowing, noise and violent boom bashing, and it did.

Nick wrote:

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:However, I do get the impression you are largely arguing for the sake of it

No I'm genuinely not.

If a technique is effective when racing I honestly don't see how it could be a problem cruising.

What technique?

Whatever technique Claymore's doing that you think he shouldn't be doing unless he's racing.

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:You seem to think I am advocating this as normal sail trim.

I don't think you advocated it, but I do think you said that either Dinghies or Yachts would both sail dead downwind sheeted right in.

Nick wrote:What were you trying to do when you tried sailing downwind with the boom centred 'in a decent wind and sea' ? Seems like an odd thing to do.

The Owner felt it was 'safer' to centre the main on the approach to Brighton. It was obvious it was going to change a comfortable, fast, controllable downwind surfing sail into a nightmare of wallowing, noise and violence, and it did.

Yachts will generally ( I am sure there are exxceptions) sail downwind with the mainsheeeted hard in quite happily in flat conditions in my experience . . . however, this point was primarioly made to counter the suggestion that the yacht would - for some reason - not go through the wind (gybe) in this configuration - which it will usually only be in for a couple of seconds.

I will accept your comments on dinghies . . . I susepct you have more dinghy experience than me. It's not really relevant, as gybing a dinghy is a very different business.

Sailing downwind for an extended period with the boom sheeted in in the conditions you describe is fairly mad. Better to put a preventer on if nervous, surely. Have you sailed with this nutter again?

Mark wrote:Whatever technique Claymore's doing that you think he shouldn't be doing unless he's racing.

He appears to be advocating sticking the helm over on a broad reach and bringing the stern through the wind without bothering to centre the main or indeed sheet in at all before the stern goes through the wind. He just hurriedly hauls in enough mainsheet as the gybe happens to 'stop the boom hitting the shrouds' on the other side.

That to me is potentially hard on the boat, potentially dangerous for the crew and not a technique that I would ever teach or even suggest to other people, even if it was my personal habit and preference. Even when executing a rapid gybe singlehanded in a fit of exuberance I try to ensure that the boom is sheeted almost all the way in as or just before it comes across.

Claymore, as I said, can do what he wishes, and I am sure it works for him - but I don't have to suck them eggs

What did you think he was advocating?

Nick wrote:Sailing downwind for an extended period with the boom sheeted in in the conditions you describe is fairly mad. Better to put a preventer on if nervous, surely.

There really was no need whatsoever to do anything. It didn't need a preventer. We'd been sailing for a good hour on the same point of sail perfectly safely. With no change of course we could have sailed right in the marina Entrance and dropped the main there. It would have been far easier and far more fun.

Nick wrote:Have you sailed with this nutter again?

Yup. I really like the boat and the owner. Yes, the last 30 minutes of that one sail was a minor pain but there were plenty of other boats who didn't even go out that day, and a huge number who stayed in the Solent. If I'd been sailing with a lot of other people I'd have missed out on 6 hours of first class sailing. If the mainsheet fittings had broken, I think the shrouds would most likely have survived the impact but if not, the mast would have fallen away from us, and it's not my money.

Nick wrote:What did you think he was advocating?

I'm no longer sure what anyone is advocating but this seems to me one of those stereotypical internet barneys where everyone is essentially in agreement but some peculiarity of the form of words used by the protagonists (or perhaps more likely some peculiarity of the protagonists) results in many millions of electrons being inconvenienced to no good purpose.

Nick wrote: He appears to be advocating sticking the helm over on a broad reach and bringing the stern through the wind without bothering to centre the main or indeed sheet in at all before the stern goes through the wind. He just hurriedly hauls in enough mainsheet as the gybe happens to 'stop the boom hitting the shrouds' on the other side.

That to me is potentially hard on the boat, potentially dangerous for the crew

Certainly not dangerous. Do Claymore's boom fittings need replacing much more often than average? I bet they don't.

Then it's less danerous and less hard on the boat after the 5 min gun of a race?

Nick wrote:What did you think he was advocating?

I don't know, I just know that he thinks it works for him, and that's good enough.

Silkie wrote:

Nick wrote:What did you think he was advocating?

I'm no longer sure what anyone is advocating but this seems to me one of those stereotypical internet barneys where everyone is essentially in agreement but some peculiarity of the form of words used by the protagonists (or perhaps more likely some peculiarity of the protagonists) results in many millions of electrons being inconvenienced to no good purpose.

I don't think this is a barney, it's a friendly chat.

Mark wrote:I don't know, I just know that he thinks it works for him, and that's good enough.

That's fine then . . . sadly he seemed to feel that my way was not good enough

Mark wrote:I don't think this is a barney, it's a friendly chat.

No, it's a Pete Cooper wind-up and I have fallen right into his trap.

Yer tea's oot, Cooper!

FWIW:

1) If it's light I'll just grab the falls of the mainsheet as the boom goes over.

2) If it's fresh I'll haul the mainsheet as I put the helm over and let it out as the stern comes through the wind.

3) If it's strong I'll haul the mainsheet before putting the helm over.

Broaching? You need to get a keel.

All the above in the context of a mainsail of 112 sq.ft.

Mark wrote:I don't think this is a barney, it's a friendly chat.

Same difference.

Silkie wrote:FWIW:

1) If it's light I'll just grab the falls of the mainsheet as the boom goes over.

2) If it's fresh I'll haul the mainsheet as I put the helm over and let it out as the stern comes through the wind.

3) If it's strong I'll haul the mainsheet before putting the helm over.

Broaching? You need to get a keel.

All the above in the context of a mainsail of 112 sq.ft.

Pretty much +1, except in 2 & 3 I'll tend to grab a bit of sheet from the middle 'cos I really don't always need all that purchase.

Silkie wrote:

Mark wrote:I don't think this is a barney, it's a friendly chat.

Same difference.

North of the border that's probably true!

We're all soft down here. We don't knock seven bells out of each other in the course of a cheery evening.

Silkie wrote:FWIW:

1) If it's light I'll just grab the falls of the mainsheet as the boom goes over.

2) If it's fresh I'll haul the mainsheet as I put the helm over and let it out as the stern comes through the wind.

3) If it's strong I'll haul the mainsheet before putting the helm over.

Broaching? You need to get a keel.

All the above in the context of a mainsail of 112 sq.ft.

All in the context of a very experienced singlehander in a boat he knows well - with, as you say, a smallish sail area.

Horses for courses.

Hope Pete knows how to gybe after reading all this. Really, you would have thought he'd have worked it out for himself by now