Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

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Nick
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Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Nick » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:51 am

.
An unusual view of Claymore's Downfall at LWS, with the new N Cardinal on the Cleit in view. Shows just how narrow the safe passage is.

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Apparently NLB may put a S Cardinal on Claymore's Rock next year.
- Nick 8)

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby wully » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:34 pm

Nick wrote:.


Apparently NLB may put a S Cardinal on Claymore's Rock next year.


Spoil Sports..

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby DaveS » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:54 pm

Nick wrote:.
An unusual view of Claymore's Downfall at LWS, with the new N Cardinal on the Cleit in view. Shows just how narrow the safe passage is.

Image

Apparently NLB may put a S Cardinal on Claymore's Rock next year.


Not before time IMHO.
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Nick
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Nick » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:08 am

.
It will probably just mean more numpties braving Cuan and hitting the rock off the N. end of Shuna.

I have (non-sailing) friends who have expressed shock when I tell them there are unmarked rocks lurking in navigable waters, that are a potential threat to passing boats, but for me there are things I would rather have my tax dollars spent on than making sailing easier for the wealthy slack and casual.
- Nick 8)

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby cpedw » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:58 pm

Nick wrote:.... making sailing easier for the wealthy slack and casual.
Qualifying on at least 2 out of 3, I'll take that personally :nod:

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby DaveS » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:55 pm

Nick wrote:.
It will probably just mean more numpties braving Cuan and hitting the rock off the N. end of Shuna.

I have (non-sailing) friends who have expressed shock when I tell them there are unmarked rocks lurking in navigable waters, that are a potential threat to passing boats, but for me there are things I would rather have my tax dollars spent on than making sailing easier for the wealthy slack and casual.


Well, three points here. I'm not certain about NLB funding: I understand that Light Dues paid by commercial shipping covers most of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if some comes from taxpayers by one means or another. I doubt if it's very significant in the great scheme of things.

The second point is more meaty and worthy of discussion. Take the two most extreme positions: few would argue that there should be no physical navigational aids (though there was a study a couple of years ago that concluded that for most marine traffic primary navigational aids were now electronic, mainly GPS and radar, but there was still a role for physical aids in assisting spacial awareness). At the opposite extreme few would argue that all hazards should be marked - that really would cost, and where would you stop? In between these extremes it comes down to making a judgement and inevitably different people will reach different views. I have a number of reasons for supporting the marking of Claymore's Rock: unlike the Cleit it is normally hidden; passages are usually made down tide with high SOG and sharp and significant changes of heading, giving little time for error correction; a glance at a fixed mark to confirm relative boat position would be a lot better (and safer) than intent study of a GPS screen.

Anyhow, anomalies abound. Kilchoan Bay has its drying rock marked, unlike the vast majority of rocks in anchorages, while the Iona Steamer Passage drying rock is not marked despite being a very real hazard to through traffic especially in poor visibility.

The third point is more philosophical. Marking hazards makes it easier to keep a boat out of danger, but is that a good thing? Should standards of seamanship be such that unmarked hazards can always be easily avoided, even in fog and with the electronics down? Would it make the game more "sporting" to add more hazards (column based or anchored vessel based tidal generators, anyone)? Much scope for discussion - preferably over a pint. :)
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Alan_D » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:05 am

DaveS wrote: Marking hazards makes it easier to keep a boat out of danger, but is that a good thing? Should standards of seamanship be such that unmarked hazards can always be easily avoided, even in fog and with the electronics down? Would it make the game more "sporting" to add more hazards (column based or anchored vessel based tidal generators, anyone)? Much scope for discussion - preferably over a pint. :)


Sounds a bit like the suggestion that having a sharpened spike on the steering wheel boss of your car would improve driving standards.

I think that the NLB have taken the view that the development of electronic aids to navigation has required greater marking of hazards, as people now venture where they would not have gone previously. (That was their justification for the Torran Rocks cardinals.) As someone who sails out of Loch Sunart I was very appreciative when they installed the south cardinal at Little Stirk - the charted clearing line was a bearing on the summit of Ben Hiant (526 metres), which wasn't much help when the cloud base was about 200 metres.

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claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby claymore » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:55 pm

I think it would be nice if they asked me if it was ok to put a cardinal mark on my rock.......
Regards
Claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby aquaplane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:12 am

claymore wrote:I think it would be nice if they asked me if it was ok to put a cardinal mark on my rock.......


:lol:

I wish the Seil shoreline was in the pic then I could see the relative position of the rock.
From what I remember of the place, the shore is just out of frame to the left?

I normally avoid the hidden rock by aiming at Cleit rock (which I can see) and just missing it.
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Aja » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:48 pm

There's another rock?

Donald

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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby aquaplane » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:58 am

Aja wrote:There's another rock?

Donald

Have you not looked at the sailing directions? There are rocks all over.
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby claymore » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:39 am

The day will come - not yet awhile, when I will probably replace Claymore with a Hymermobile.
I was wondering about making a gesture - rather akin to the Wyre Majestic, another Fleetwood ship - and park my dear old boat on my rock - as a reminder to all of the folly of turning left a bit too soon. Perhaps Dylan Winter could do a bit of a production?
Anyway - its just a thought at this stage. Do you think we'd need to get planning permission?
Regards
Claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Aja » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:20 pm

aquaplane wrote:
Aja wrote:There's another rock?

Donald

Have you not looked at the sailing directions? There are rocks all over.


I have naturally assumed the old buffer had clipped the Cleit. You live and learn.

I usually aim for the Cleit.....

Donald

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claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby claymore » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:28 pm

Aja wrote:
aquaplane wrote:
Aja wrote:There's another rock?

Donald

Have you not looked at the sailing directions? There are rocks all over.


I have naturally assumed the old buffer had clipped the Cleit. You live and learn.

I usually aim for the Cleit.....

Donald

Ok - despite the 'old buffer remark which is ironic bearing in mind we are close enough in age to be twins- as our respective hairstyles demonstrate - i shall explain.
It was a friday.
Big springs
Heading for Kilmelford from Tobers.
Less than an hour to LWS.
I was steering
Headed for the Cleit rock, which I understand cannot be hit.
Became distracted and just started wandering left before the next leg had fully opened ( if you'll pardon the expression )
Sog in the region of 8 kts.
The biggest fekking bang you ever did hear as the bow rose skywards.
Into reverse - zilch
Fishing boat was following and floated a line down - boat had by now slowly turned into the tide.
Wouldn't budge.
Started to list to starboard and now stuck fast.
Fishing boat advised that when the flood began to rise we would turn into it. Get engine ready to start and as soon as we were semi floating - give it laldie.
All this happened and we made our way up tide and on to Kilmelford. This was the scariest part of the whole ordeal as we were only making 0 - 0.5 kts SOG with the cleit rock dead astern as I ferry glided across to get out of the main flood, looking for less tide or even a back eddy.
Doing it again I would go and park somewhere in the lee of the Cleit over towards the Ardinamir side until the flood had subsided.
This all happened in the summer of 1998.
Ok?
Regards
Claymore
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Re: Cleit cardinal and Claymore's Rock

Postby Aja » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:55 pm

claymore wrote:
Aja wrote:
aquaplane wrote:Have you not looked at the sailing directions? There are rocks all over.


I have naturally assumed the old buffer had clipped the Cleit. You live and learn.

I usually aim for the Cleit.....

Donald

Ok - despite the 'old buffer remark which is ironic bearing in mind we are close enough in age to be twins- as our respective hairstyles demonstrate - i shall explain.


Still doing the comb-over?


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