Anchors

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Craig Smith
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Re: Anchors

Postby Craig Smith » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:37 pm

Hi all.

Silkie wrote:I have to confess to having only one anchor, a 20lb plough (not CQR) and so intend to add another different anchor for next season. The new anchor would become no.1 bower with the plough relegated to the no.2 spot. I'm tempted by a 10kg Sword (Alain says that the 5kg one will do the trick but it sounds awfy light - it's all about shape and area you know!)

but keep coming back to a tried and tested 10kg Delta.

NIck swears by his 10kg Spade and DaveS has every confidence in his 16kg Delta.

Shard has a CQR I think but wouldn't be without a BFO fisherman's as well.

The Sword / Oceane will perform much better than the Delta, in soft mud. In hard sand it seems to have setting problems, as seen in the Yachting Monthly testing. The Delta's other benefit is better strength.

The Spade is better than both, but expensive as you say.

I am tempted to recommend the ideal solution, but will restrain myself.

DaveS wrote:The blurb on the Delta promised self launching which sounded useful. So I bought a Delta. At that time the newer anchors had not really made their presence noticed.

The Delta certainly does not like holding in kelp, and is sometimes spectacularly unsuccesful! With a decent bottom it holds fine, but I have modified my laying technique quite a bit.

The Delta is a superb anchor. Credit where it is due. Earlier models by Simpson Lawrence were better than Lewmar's cost-cutting versions, but it still performs exceptionally well. Even in the Yachting Monthly testing, which has all the CQR and Bruce fans raving about how it couldn't possibly be realistic, the Delta comes in third behind only the Spade and Rocna (in terms of averaged holding power) out of fourteen.

It does have its flaws - you pointed out one wrt. kelp yourself, but it's still a good bet as a general purpose pick.

Aja wrote:I cant comment on newer anchors, but two things jump to mind. One is, as others have mentioned, is not the anchor - but the chain.

Chain is more and more important the worse the anchor is.

ash wrote:Bruce Anchor

...is no longer produced. The only options are copies.

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Silkie
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Re: Anchors

Postby Silkie » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:36 pm

Silkie wrote:Hopefully Alain and Craig won't find us here.

Tee hee. Well it did take 3 weeks anyway. Nothing personal Craig but when you and Alain get started the OP does tend to get lost in the crossfire. :)

Glad to see you've now got a distributor in this part of the world and the pricing seems competitive against the Spade so I guess I'll have to think seriously about the Rocna too.

I'm planning on going to the boat show on the last Saturday. Are you going to have any sooper-dooper introductory boat show offers? :)
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Craig Smith
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Postby Craig Smith » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:01 am

You'll have to talk to the distributor Silkie. Frankly they have quite limited stock at the moment, and I know they've pre-sold a lot already, so they may not feel the need for introductory discounts. Why sell a product you need to discount to move?

Anyway you could try your luck.

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Silkie
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Postby Silkie » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:43 am

Well it's a point of view I suppose.

Some distributors look on a show as a means to promote themselves and their new product in as many ways as possible. A cash sale from an exhibition stand at a small discount is surely no less profitable than a full-price sale (which incurs the costs of dealing with remote payment, physical despatch, carriers etc.) while generating considerably more goodwill as well as being sales they might otherwise not have had?

Anyway it sounds as though only a small quantity of Rocnas have been imported on a toe-in-the-water basis. Are you sure that these people are whole-heartedly behind your excellent anchor? Now if I might recommend a small, newly-formed, specialist company Anchors'r'Us who are passionate about their area of expertise.. Check out our website at http://www.Anchorsrus.com.

:)
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Worse than Alain & Craig ce'st Moi! Top three choices I

Postby Michael » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am

Having fostered some very long threads in other forums....

After a lot of research, setting goals, and staying withing budget I chose three of the newer anchors.

I wanted the least amount that would do all jobs under all conditions no matter I sailed. Beyond that I wanted the newer or cutting edge technology anchors as I also write on occasion for one of the sailing magazines.

Price being no object LOL I ended up purchasing the following and for the following reasons.

Rocna 15 (15 kilo 33 lbs) The only new one that stands by it's chart and says buy what we recommend. You don't need to go one size up as normal. Recommended by all current owners I could find with no exceptions. This replaced my CQR

Bulwagga also in one size up for my 31' Berwick as this manufacturer agrees with the age old rule of thumb and states a reason. Since you don't know where and under what conditions on a long cruise go up that extra step to ensure good results. However in the east coast of much of the USA this three blade Danforth is felt to be just right in their mud and sand bottoms. They also were recommended by owners without reservation and especially for weed. Since I don't much care for Danforths this replaced my Bruce.

Those two are primary and will handle all situations BUT an extra for spare or storm purposes was needed.

Surprise Surprise # 3 which is the ONLY new design that can be taken apart an easily stowed is the all steel Spade again in one size higher than recommended by Alain a move suggested by West Marines tech department who pointed out Alain's chart is dictated by the French Gov't.
No lightweight Spade they had too many complaints while the steel version had none. It replaced my 55 lb folding Luke fisherman style storm anchor.

Having run out of budget......and space to stow that's the collection.

They will all be used with primarily a chain rode with a synthetic snubber, although if things get way to deep I can add 300 feet of synethetic.

The one anchor I've tried lately that I recommend you DON"T get is the SuperMAX. Sort of a wavy scoopy sort of contraption that when embedded properly in the sandy/muddy bottom on the inshore side of coastal New Jersey, USA could be pulled out with one arm, mine, the right one. It's junk.

The one thing I disliked about all the tests is they are often, too often, like Reality TV; i.e. not real life. So in the coming year I intend to test the above three in real life practical conditions too include a sloping bottom with major tidal and current changes. I know some spots with 10 + feet tide changes, as much as five knots of current with 10 to 25 degree bottom slopes and occasionally lots of weed.

Initially I'll do some sets with each kind backing down and then reversing to see what happens when they pull loose and need to reset and then watch what the tide/current does for a day or....then change hooks and start over.

THEN I'll write an article about it.......LOL but post something in the meantime. Don't look for it right away I have to work a few months out here to pay for the rest of the refit.

Cheers

Michael
Westerly Berwick 31 (a proper British built boat nicely modified)
Michael
SV Se Langt
Westerly Berwick 31

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Silkie
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Postby Silkie » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Welcome to the forum Michael and thanks for your contribution to my anchor dilemma. I still haven't decided. Current runners are 10kg Delta, Rocna & Spade.

Price is important to me but I'd prefer one of the two newer designs which puts the focus on the Rocna. The two main differences between it and the Spade seem to be the roll-bar and weighted tip.

I can imagine a situation after landing on it's side where the Rocna's roll-bar catches on something before the blade digs in and gives the illusion of a set anchor. And while there is an irresistable logic to having a weight at the pointy end of an anchor I would think that the Rocna's slimmer cross-section at the tip must make it dig in more easily.

You didn't say what size of Spade you chose. Look forward to hearing the results of your long-term testing but I'll have to make up my mind before then.

Dave
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Michael
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The anchors

Postby Michael » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:21 am

Rocna 15 15kg 33 lb. There were two that fit and somewhat overlapped so I went with the higher of the two.

Spade 80 15 kg. 33 lb. listed for boats 35' and longer

These similar anchors are therefore the same weight. Should be a fair comparison.

Bulwagga 27 lb one step higher than the chart for a 31' boat.

Add to that a chain rode I've been using 120' of 1/4" G4 on the 26' Centaur will use (probably) 90' of 5/16 or 60' of 3/8" also G4. Haven't decided yet. The compelling reason after strength though is not weight but ease of stowing. Singlehanding it's hard to put someone down below to stow synthetic and it doesn't fall down the pipe very well as does chain. I'm going to acquire brait line though and see how it does. 300' or so in one or two segments. The line is to lengthen the anchor rode when needed and also doubles for use with parasail sea anchor.

Insofar as Fortress, Aluminum Spade and so forth are concerned they are lightweights and do a lightweight job. The fortress is just another Danforth without the weight. Light Weight in anchoring is the enemy. Heavier anchors, rodes etc. are your friend. To borrow from the big ships the anchor holds the chain and the chain holds the ship. Anchor has to be parallel to the bottom and a good catenary. Which requires scope and weight of rode.

I don't care what the design EXCEPT for a Rond or a Japanese/Hawaiian Rock Pick light weights can't be trusted. Their primary use is for those who can't handle a real anchor even with the electric winches and all.

Don't start arguing about it.....that's my mindset and I've yet to see any good reason to change.

The other decision I've yet to make is swivels. Not that I use them that much but I've a mind to do some testing in the deployment of a Bahamian Moor or perhaps a triple Bahamian all leading to one point, a swivel and from there up to the boat itself. So far the possibilities are Suncor, a similar one to Suncor made by McDuff Industries of New Zealand, Kong another bi directional and Wasi Ball. If McDuff ever gets off it's ass and does anything with there product amd website that is. Right now I'm listing them McDuff, Suncor Kong and WasiBall. Why Wasi last? Look at their own tests posted in their own website carefully. Not sufficienetly reasurring to say the least.

So only thing that remains is G40 chain. Synethetic is the new brait line, three new style anchors and one or two of the newer swivels. Should prove interesting.

Comments?

Michael

I won't answer for a week at least we're moving the shipl
Michael

SV Se Langt

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Craig Smith
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Postby Craig Smith » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:46 pm

Thought I'd add this. Our table, containing the summary comments from West Marine as published in their 2007 catalog. Relates to the Yachting Monthly testing, but direct from the source so-to-speak.

Image

No comments, take it or leave it.

DELETED

magazine tests and real life experience..

Postby DELETED » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:13 am

DELETED

DELETED

Some more "real life" results..

Postby DELETED » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:57 pm

DELETED

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Silkie
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Last minute entry from left field

Postby Silkie » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:37 pm

I see Gael Force have taken on the Manson Supreme here.

"The anchor has been closely reviewed by Lloyds Register of Shipping and it received a SHHP status, (Super High Holding Power). The first and only production boat anchor in the world to do so. Certificate Number SPA-ANCH0062"
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Postby claymore » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:53 am

Silkie
I bought a bigger Bruce about 4 years ago.
- its just sitting in my workshop, piercing my shins each time I walk into it.
Would you be interested in crossing my palm with a few of the folding ones?
I'll go and check the weight of it if so.
Regards
Claymore
:goatd

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Silkie
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Postby Silkie » Sun May 06, 2007 11:28 pm

Probably wouldn't have it even if you paid me since everyone knows that the Bruce is a crap anchor but just out of interest how big is it? :)
Last edited by Silkie on Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick
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Bruce . . .

Postby Nick » Mon May 07, 2007 12:09 pm

Should be an Australian anchor really shouldn't it?

Now modified to create a new generation HHP version called the 'Sheila', featuring a roll bar to make sure she stays off her back . . .
- Nick 8)

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