How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

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aquaplane
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How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby aquaplane » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 am

Our Centaur has the original MDIIC still working but I know it's not going to for ever.
I thought it would be about 5 or 6K to have another one installed based on what I heard from Ash.
Someone mentioned that they were swapping their engine at the moment so I contacted them to see what they were fitting and how much it was costing.
I think it was a Yanmar that they had fitted, the engine was £4600 and fitting £3600, well my jaw dropped.
I recon a Centaur is about £8 to 10K, maybe £12K for a good one with a new(ish) engine, but I would squirm at that.
I can see the point in investing £6K to have a new engine, but not £8+K.
I have seen a Beta 20 for £4600 without any shopping around, so it comes down to the instalation cost, is that bout right at £3600?
Perhaps we should swap the boat and get one with a newer engine before the elastic band bursts on this one?
:tiphat:
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Nick
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Nick » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:46 am

.
Don't be daft, fit the engine yourself. I did and I am a mechanical and electrical numpty. Boat mechanics are the most appalling bunch of rip-off merchants, and their prices are based on people who own boats costing upwards of £40k.
- Nick 8)

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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby marisca » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:01 pm

Having just removed my donk, fitted new engine bearers for the new engine mounts, and put the thing back again, I can assure you it ain't rocket science. Just make sure you have done everything you want to do in the engine space while it is empty - makes life so much easier - things like new anode bolts, calorifier pipes, sound insulation, stern gland packing, diesel pipe checking, exhaust bits, even the engine water cock, etc. Doing it yourself has the added advantage that you know how well aligned the propshaft is, how tight the bolts are, what the wear in the shaft is like and where all the wires go - but, of course, if you think that paying top dollar assures you of a perfect job .........

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Arghiro
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Arghiro » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:35 pm

MD engines have L/H prop, most modern engines are R/H. You may also need a new propshaft - oh, & my fuel tank dumped its load when I refilled prior to sea trials. So even doing it yourself there are many additional costs & jobs (may need to replace the bearers).

At the time I replaced mine, I was earning well & preferred to pay to have the lot done. That way if owt went wrong there was only one person to blame, the supplier & fitter were the same company.

It's given the boat a new lease of life, quieter, smoother, more powerful & utterly reliable. Would you prefer to sell your boat & buy another for the same overall cost? Or do you want to keep her for many years to come? Those are the questions you need to ask.

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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Rowana » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Why change if it's still working?

Look after it well, and there's no reason why it can't go on working for a few years yet.

Change the oil & filter regularly, use the correct oil, none of this fancy synthetic stuff. Make sure you have clean fuel & filters. Check the anodes regularly. When you do run it, make sure you give it plenty to do, and don't run it light.

When it does become time to change, certainly do it yourself. I wouldn't ever consider getting someone else to do it.
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Aja » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:00 pm

I've done two engines myself now. Others around here will tell you that it 'aint rocket science. It isn't difficult. A bit of planning is needed in getting the old one out and the new in.

Alignment is a bit difficult and take the opportunity to renew all the old fuel feeds and electrical wiring.

You will be one very smug and satisfied sailor indeed. :wink:

Donald

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aquaplane
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby aquaplane » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:27 am

Thanks for the posts chaps.

For clarification, I was only forward planning, I don't fix things that aren't broken.

From what I see in the WOA forum, I knew that a new prop is probably going to be part of the opperation, and associated bits may as well be new at the same time, unless I find a widershins ingine.

I'm willing to have a go, and I'm fairly sure I could do it my self.
When I put a new reverse gear in the Fiat I only sheared 1 bolt from the bell housing and had the magnet from inside left when I had done.
When I was changing the glow plugs on the Ford I only sheared 2 off, 2 work though.
When I drained the water off the MDIIC I only broke one of the three drain taps, I stoped when I broke the first one.
It may be best to pay someone to do it.

I'm certainly not flush and am not naieve enough to think that if I pay top dollar (if I had it) I would get the best job possible done, I would ask about for someone who does a good job but doesn't take the Mick.

Let's hope the MDIIC lasts a few years, I'll be ready for a Konsort about then, or something with an aft cabin and midships bog layout.
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Nick
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Nick » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:17 am

aquaplane wrote:When I put a new reverse gear in the Fiat I only sheared 1 bolt from the bell housing and had the magnet from inside left when I had done.
When I was changing the glow plugs on the Ford I only sheared 2 off, 2 work though.
When I drained the water off the MDIIC I only broke one of the three drain taps, I stoped when I broke the first one.
It may be best to pay someone to do it.


I used to shear off every bolt I tightened etc etc but I persevered. A lot of the guys who will charge you £30 per hour or more to work on your engine will do no better and will also charge you for the time they spend fixing their own mistakes. Have a little faith, or get another forumite to come and give you a hand.

When I fitted the new Beta to Fairwinds I bottled out of aligning the engine. The end result was I paid a 'professional' nearly £400 to misalign it TWICE!. He had the propshaft nearly touching the side of the stern tube; it was so badly misaligned that the Volvo stern seal leaked. 'Oh, must be a fault in the stern seal', he said - until I pulled it off and showed him what he had done. (Don't do this on a boat with a normal cutless bearing in case you sink btw).

It was fine when I did it myself, absolutely fine and has been for 600+ hours.

Really, seriously, do it yourself - seek help here with every step, invite mates to help and feed and water and flatter them, but stay away from boat mechanics if you value your liquidity and sanity. Many are useless, none that I have heard of yet offer value for money.
- Nick 8)

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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Pete Cooper » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:34 pm

Well I reckon the most cost effective solution is to rebuild your existing engine - assuming that parts are available. A few new parts, some machining and you have an engine potentially better than it was originally - and much cheaper than a replacement.

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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Arghiro » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:22 pm

I gave up after the third rebuild, Volvo parts are jolly costly & a rebuild can quickly hit the 2k mark, & you still have a 30 year old engine. But It gained me about 15 extra years out of it.

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Nick
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Re: How much is too much for an engine in a MAB?

Postby Nick » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:59 am

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When we bought Fairwinds the seller was looking for £12k but we got her for £11k - still a lot for a Vega with the original 32 year old Volvo. The reason the seller wanted the premium was because he reckoned he had spent £3k getting the engine overhauled. We said forget it, it's still an ancient engine.

The engine smoked and overheated and the Combi unit had to be taken apart and rebuilt. It gave us loads of grief going round Ireland in 2005 and we replaced it before our Atlantic year away. I thought the £3k was just a porky but eventually I found £3k+ of receipts from Ardfern in a locker on board. I also spoke to a worker from Ardfern in Port Ellen one day, who told me that the owner had been told to bite the bullet and get a new engine - but instead he had opted to have 3 tranches of remedial work done, with an eventual cost not far short of a new Beta and resulting in an engine that still could not give more than 3 knots without overheating.

I would always recommend buying a new engine and fitting it yourself if you intend keeping the boat and doing any serious cruising in it. Total cost of new bearer plates, a new Beta plus gearbox, prop shaft and folding prop, new fuel piping, wiring, sound insulation etc was about £4.5k
- Nick 8)

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