poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

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Julian

poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby Julian » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:08 pm

things have been adding to the list and it's been too cold to work down the list.. anyhow, spring has sprung and it is time to make a start.

Though this one isn't on the list, my starboard bilge pump has died, nada, nothing, dead as a dead thing..

Just browsing the force4 site I see a bewildering array of pumps. I probably need an auto switch too as the one fitted in the port hull was stuck on last time I arrived, I think it was bumped in the storms and didn't fall back to off. I heard a weird buzzing sound as I pulled alongside in the dingy.

So, two jobs one stone... By an auto pump and move the switch on the starboard side to the port side and put the port switch in the shed... 'just in case'

But which pump to fit, how am I supposed to choose.

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Old_Glow_In_The_Deep
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby Old_Glow_In_The_Deep » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:10 am

I have a Johnson with float switch which replaced a Johnson, all because the outer casing / connection split due to an over tight hose (previous owner).
I didn’t realise the motor is removable and fits both casings….. works fine… yours if you want it.

"how am I supposed to choose." price, location and flow-rate. :wink:

Julian

Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby Julian » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:44 pm

Old_Glow_In_The_Deep wrote:I have a Johnson with float switch which replaced a Johnson, all because the outer casing / connection split due to an over tight hose (previous owner).
I didn’t realise the motor is removable and fits both casings….. works fine… yours if you want it.
I'm not going to say no to that, I will at least pay your postage costs.

Old_Glow_In_The_Deep wrote:"how am I supposed to choose." price, location and flow-rate. :wink:

Yup they all have those, hence why I asked :D

You did however miss quality which is the most important don't you think?

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sahona
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby sahona » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:46 am

If the pump gets rid of the water surrounding it, and continues running, it will overheat and burn out, so the flipped switch, if that's what happened, is the probable answer.
I use a tube with a plastic bottle(with the bottom cut off) to form a bell, attached to the pressure switch from a washing machine situated well above the possible waterline. The best sensor I have had over the last twelve years.
A delay timer helps prevent recycling - I use a relay from the courtesy light in a car.
The type of pump doesn't matter to me - just the biggest I can get into the available space, with really thick short wires feeding it.
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

foillan
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby foillan » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Hi Bill, have you any more information on the set up you use? I have a deep narrow bilge with a long pipe from the pump to the stern. The water in the pipe returns to the bilge and the float switch sets the pump off again. I am looking for a different way to switch the pump on and off.
Foillan.

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ash
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby ash » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:41 pm

foillan wrote: I have a deep narrow bilge with a long pipe from the pump to the stern. The water in the pipe returns to the bilge and the float switch sets the pump off again. I am looking for a different way to switch the pump on and off.
Foillan.

I bought a Johnson Ultimate Combo L450, but haven't fitted it yet.

It has a built in "field effect" electronic water sensing switch for control, and a rubber check valve to prevent water running back into the bilge when switched off.

The check valve will reduce the flow rate, but if it's only to keep the bilges dry, rather than cope with a hole in the hull, then that shouldn't matter.
Ultima Combo
Pump with automatic operation equipped with the Ultima switch. Voltage12 V DC as well as 24 V DC for L650 UC and L750 UC. For L450 UC -
L650 UC, we have easy-to-install Dura-Port discharge ports to eliminate stress cracking caused by over-tightened hose clamps. The pumps will
be delivered including both a straight and a 90° smooth elbow Dura-Port as well as a removable check valve.



My intention is to fit it to the end of a 'stick' so that I can push it down into the very narrow bilge formed in the aft end of the encapsulated keel of the Vega.

Ash
"This is a sailing Forum"
Albin Vega "Mistral" is now sold

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sahona
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby sahona » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:08 pm

foillan wrote:Hi Bill, have you any more information on the set up you use? I have a deep narrow bilge with a long pipe from the pump to the stern. The water in the pipe returns to the bilge and the float switch sets the pump off again. I am looking for a different way to switch the pump on and off.
Foillan.


Here goes: My boat is a long keeler with a very deep bilge at the back below the gearbox coupling.
The batteries are directly above, and the outlet skinfitting above to port.
The pump and the sense bell (plastic 250mL bottle with bottom cut off) with it's small bore flexible pipe and the pump wiring are attached to a rigid pipe used for the pump output, about 5feet long. This is used to lower and position the functional bits, and the top is connected to the skin fitting by a flexible pipe.
Also at the top, well above non-catastrophic waterline, is the sensor switch from either a washing machine or dishwasher. It senses the air pressure increase when water enters the bottom of the bell (bottle) and one of it's (many) contacts is used to pick the relay which is also mounted at the top of the tube. The relay is normally used to provide a delay for interior lights in a car, and is available from most auto parts places. (PM me for wiring as it requires a bit of tweeking) The use of the relay is two-fold : it allows thick cable to be used in a very short run from the battery to the pump, thus making sure there are plenty of ergs available to lift the water 6 or 7 feet. and it provides a method of making the pump run for a few seconds after the sensor has told it the bilge is dry thus cutting down cycling.
But, there will always be some fall-back of water unless non-return valves are used.
From your description, the length of tube is the thing I would make an effort to cut down if possible. Perhaps a side exit like mine?
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

Julian

Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby Julian » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:21 am

Today I fixed the pump, ho hum, avionics engineer finds broken wire on back of bulkhead fuse holder and re-soldered saving £40.00 for a new pump.

The give away was my boats HiFi going dead, a few weeks ago it was flickering, I thought the damp was getting to it, the boat has been rather damp this month. Anyhow, last week it was dead as a doornail, ye gads not another bill (scary one too). Brought it home and left it to dry out and warm up, worked no probs on the bench.

cogs whirring, I had measured +12v at the rear, but had not measured the memory line, knowing the memory comes from the same source as the bilge pump (the only 24hr power) ah ha, must be a supply. This weekend was the first this month we were not just nipping on, checking, coming home so I was able to prod about.

I even cleaned out the heads tap switch so we had water in the heads again, it's been a hard winter this year for some reason. Thank god the eber has been faultless since changing the gauze, had to turn it on at 0530 yesterday morning as I awoke shivering.

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sahona
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Re: poor boat is poorly this winter -- bilge pumps

Postby sahona » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:55 pm

Julian wrote: Thank god the eber has been faultless since changing the gauze, had to turn it on at 0530 yesterday morning as I awoke shivering.


Not sure which model you have, but many of them have ears, and will have been able to hear and take action on that last comment.
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.


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