Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

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ash
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Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby ash » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:44 pm

Hi

I've posted this on the Albin Vega Forum but it's a bit quiet there so I'll pose the same question to the Vega owners in here.

How much anchor rode can fit easily ( ie will drop down through the hawse pipe without having to be poked ) into the standard anchor chain locker in the Vega?

Length X Dia of warp?
Length X Wire dia of chain - long / short link?

Has anyone moved the wooden bulkhead to increase the locker capacity?

More general question - would it be better to use all the locker capacity for 'all chain' ( short length of warp to allow end of chain to exit the hawse pipe ) and have a length of warp in a cockpit locker which could be added to the chain if a longer rode was required.

Another general question - would new galvanised chain slump into the locker more easily than my old / rusty chain?

TIA

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Silkie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:59 pm

Not able to comment on the capacity of a Vega chain locker, although I did once lose a torch in one but that's another story.

However, having recently changed from very old rusty chain to very new galvanised chain, I can report that it is significantly slinkier.
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby ash » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:20 pm

Cheers Silkie

I need to keep in mind that you are an expert in fitting replacement stemheads on Vegas.

Glad to hear that shiney galvanised runs in better - I need to leave the last bit out till I've bumped through a few waves.

I seem to remember that you considered going the other way - less chain and more warp - what did you do in the end?

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Silkie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:43 pm

More or less the same as before, 30 of 6mm + 30m of 12mm. It's a reasonable compromise for an old bloke without a windlass.
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Gardenshed » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:03 pm

I replaced my chain this year. peace of mind more important than how if falss into the anchor locker. FPM Henderson in Yoker (http://www.fpmhenderson.co.uk 0141 941 1211) was about half the price of the on line chandlers and delivered the chain to dunstaffnage for no extra cost.

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Nick » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:18 pm

.
We can't get quite as much in ours as we used to because someone dropped a torch in it.

We have 35m of 8mm chain spliced to about 20m of 12mm anchorplait. I usually have to have a wee poke before the last five metres of chain will go down, but reckon it is worth the effort.

If it was all chain there would be enough room for about 40m or a wee bitty more without poking I reckon.

While we are on the subject, can I recommend ribbon for marking anchor chain? We still have the same three bits of ribbon that were on when we got the boat, and they are good as new - kind to hands and windlasses too. Red, white and blue at 11m, 22m and 33m respectively. I've never felt the need to be more precise than that.
- Nick 8)

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby ash » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:40 pm

Cheers to you both

A supplier would have been the next question.

I currently have 30M - not sure of size - probably 1/4" - but it is 20M plus 10M with a shackle plus 30M warp.

I tend to just use the 20M plus a chain hook with a 2M 2 legged snubber.

I don't have to deal with waves and anchor in up to 7M depth.

I use a 7.5kg Bruce but already have a 10kg Bruce so would like to increase chain weight to match the ten. I'm not in a great hurry to change but last weekend brought it back to mind.

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Silkie » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:33 pm

Got my chain from Boat Gear Direct.
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby ash » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:39 pm

Hi Nick

Thanks for the info. I didn't intend to ignore your answer - I'm sure that it wasn't there when I started my last reply but can't believe that I took over 22 minutes to compose it.

My wooden bulkhead has a wee door - probably designed for retrieving torches - I sometimes worry about kicking it open when in my bunk - OK if anchored but there would be a pile of chain on my feet otherwise. In the past, I've tried to place the warp ( which I don't usually get to when anchoring ) in the bits of the locker where the chain wouldn't go. I might try again using the postie's discarded elastic bands to bundle it forward and high. For a while, I used a screwdriver down the hawse pipe to move the chain about so that the last bit would drop in, but one day when getting ready to anchor I had to dive below and lift off the door to undo a knot which had formed in the chain so I've stopped poking it.

Silkie - Thanks for the info.

Ash

BTW - Is Silkie's torch still glowing? There used to be an urban myth in the merchant navy. One unit (cylinder) of a ship's main engine had been pulled (opened up, serviced, and closed up again ) in the last port. The engine had rattled throughout the trip so when the ship docked the 2 third engineers opened up the unit by themselves in the middle of the night and retrieved the spanner that they'd left in the cylinder. The next day, the second engineer ordered the cylinder head to be removed. He climbed in and called out that he had found the problem - a torch - and a very good one at that - it was still lit.
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby JohnBuch » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:40 pm

Something I regularly agonise over! In my Vega an additional protective bulkhead was put in to stop the forepeak getting damp and dirty. As a result I can only get 30m of 6mm chain into the locker. I would like to have another 30 - 40 m of warp but am not sure of a really reliable way to join the warp to the chain in a way that can be quickly connected and disconnected when needed.
One idea I have read about to increase storage in the chain locker is to install a cone inside the chain locker directly below the chain pipe which apparently leads to the chain spreading out more widely but still remaining easily managable.


A side issue in relation to anchoring/ mooring a Vega which I worry about is the strength of the teak foredeck cleat. Every year I consider the option of keeping the boat on a mooring over the winter, but I'm not sure that the traditional Vega cleat would be up to the buffeting (one of my teak sidedeck cleats snapped two years ago when I left the boat on a pontoon at Rhu over the winter) What do folk think would be better for a backup - a Samson Post or pair of foredeck cleats?
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby ash » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:02 pm

Cheers John

I take it that your fuel problems are all sorted.

I'm not sure if a cone will help much in a Vega. The area at the bottom of the locker is very small as it is.

I think that it would be possible to have a shackle fitted to a rode kept in good conditions which could be used easily to connect to the chain when required. A bigger difficulty would be disconnecting the chain from the bitter end fixing - you might need to accept that you would need to cut through the short piece of warp but that would entail remaking the connection after use. I suppose that it would depend how often you envisaged extending the rode by adding warp.

I use a two legged snubber with loops on the inboard ends. The loop is passed under and then over the cleat such that the pressure is on the metal legs of the cleat. A straight pull means that the cleat is only stitching the two loops together and not taking any great strain. The strain is all taken by the fairleads which are on the strongest part of the hull. As she veers then one leg of the snubber will carry all the load which will create a side pressure on the cleat. I think that if you were to leave her on a mooring over the winter, then you would want long snubbing lines back to the winches to give some stretch.

IIRC SteveB used to keep Southern Comfort on a mooring though maybe not through the winter. Nick kept Fairwinds on her mooring over one winter - maybe they can answer you.

Cheers

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby Nick » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:51 pm

.
Fairwinds has had the teak cleat replaced with a big stainless jobbie. I trust it, and we did indeed leave Fairwinds on her mooring over a Winter - including the big storm that blew the Uist family off the causeway.

We are thinking of leaving her in again this Winter, but I would like to fit more cleats and have a back-up strop as well this year.
- Nick 8)

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby DaveS » Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:30 pm

ash wrote: A bigger difficulty would be disconnecting the chain from the bitter end fixing - you might need to accept that you would need to cut through the short piece of warp but that would entail remaking the connection after use.


I have given this some thought over the past couple of years, since I have an all chain rode of 40m, which covers most situations, but I would like the ability to shackle on a length of nylon in extremis. My solution - which I haven't seen documented elsewhere, making me wonder if there's a flaw I haven't spotted - is to attach the bitter end lashing 1 link before the end, leaving the last link clear to take a shackle. This, in conjunction with a chain ratchet, should allow connection of the warp followed by undoing the lashing to be carried out not under tension, but with a backup attachment in place at all times. Or have I missed something?
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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby JohnBuch » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:30 pm

Sounds good Dan,

can I just clarify two things:

How do you attach the shackle to the nylon warp? I only ask because with the nylon to chain connection usually used there is a bombproof splice overlapping with chain for a couple of feet.

My 'system' ( which I'm not entirely sure about) is having an Ankarolina with a sewn loop on the end to put the shackle through. I worry about the strength of the tape - though the manufacturer quotes pretty strong breaking strains - breaking load 2500kg for the one I have. As always I should have gone for the next size up which quotes a breaking load of 3000kg. However from the data I can find this seems to be greater than for my 6mm chain.

The other thing I'm not clear about is when you say :
"with a backup attachment in place at all times." I'm guessing that you mean at all times until the anchor is deployed - is that right?

Cheers

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Re: Quantity of anchor rode in a Vega

Postby DaveS » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:41 pm

Apologies for lack of clarity.

I do use rope to chain splices elsewhere: on my spare anchor and on a nylon / chain / nylon line for mooring buoys, but, as I said, the main anchor rode is currently all chain. The difficulty of having a permanantly attached extension rope is finding somewhere to store it: the chain locker really only wants to have chain in it. If space is not a problem, then a rope chain splice is the obvious answer (but if a windlass is used, see the manufacturer's recommendations: they don't seem to like conventional rope / chain splices). My idea is to be able to shackle on, on the hopefully rare occasions required, a nylon line. I currently have a 50m climbing rope with a hard eye spliced (actually sewn and parcelled) on to one end which could be used, but I was thinking of getting a somewhat thicker length of octoplait (for easier handling) and backsplicing it round a big stainless bow shackle.

With almost all the chain out, and either a ratchet or anchor snubber deployed, it should then be possible to first shackle on the nylon extension, then release the chain bitter end lashing and either lift the shackle over the windlass or take it off the windlass completely before releasing the ratchet / snubber and veering out more rode. The lashing is, of course, long enough to allow all of this to be done on deck, and the bitter end of the nylon would be securely cleated off before starting...

The one major downside I can see is the need for care if recovering the nylon with a windlass since the shackle cannot be allowed to get into it. A chain hook on a line back to a winch might be helpful in gaining the foot or so of chain needed to set a snubber or ratchet so that the bitter end lashing could be re-made, the chain led over the windlass and the nylon unshackled. Alternatively, recovering the nylon manually or with the aid of a cockpit winch and only handling chain with the windlass might be simpler.

Funnily enough, I too have a reel of Anchoralina mounted at the bow, and while I could use it as a rode extension, I'd rather have something a bit stronger just to give more safety margin. It's extremely handy as an easily deployed shore line in tight anchorages, however.
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