Talk me out of it.

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aquaplane
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Talk me out of it.

Postby aquaplane » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:30 pm

We have decided we can afford to upgrade from camping afloat to caravaning and I have my eye on this :
Westerly Tiger

The owner has had her from new on Windermere and has raced her but lived in a caravan so she hasn't been lived on. Usual story about wife fed up and kids moved on so it's got to go. She has been on brokerage for about 3 years.

It's filthy, inside and out. Moss outside, mildew inside, all running rigging is green. The headlining is shot and needs ripping off where it's still stuck but that's not unusuall. I have priced headlining kits for about £500 so I know what I'm letting my self in for there. The rest is loads of elbow grease and hot soapy water.

It's been out of the water every winter on her own trailer so I'm not expecting much in the way of osmosis problems.

There are no instruments to go wrong. The nav lights are broken (off) but that's no great deal.

I'm temped to offer £7000, should I seek councelling?
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Mehitabel
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Postby Mehitabel » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:20 pm

Hi Bob, Although she has been out of the water every winter I would not discount the possibility of osmosis. Fresh water is considerably worse than sea water in this department and old Westerleys are certainly not imune. My father's Centaur (1979) which is kept on a drying river mooring which is substantialy fresh water has developed blisters over recent years. And this is with the hull dried out for probably 75% of the time. Having said that, with the hugely thick layup of these boats it is never going to be a serious structural problem, but it should affect the price you pay and also your resale value.

Next issue is the engine which I assume will be an old Volvo. You really need to see this running, ideally in the water. If it needs work it will be expensive, possibly unbelievebly so.

If you are seriously smitten (and I can appreciate why), if its been for sale for 3 years and its in as bad a (cosmetic) state as you say I would go in with a silly offer first (£5000)? :D

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sahona
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Postby sahona » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:41 pm

Hi, how much of the price is wrapped up in the trailer ~ and do you need one? Otherwise - as above - what's in the engine compartment?
Are the sails useable, I see no roller for the genny.
The headlining is part of the great Westerly inheritance and can be fixed in many ways (cheaply) - try removeable (velcro) panels, especially if you add electric lights and other wired devices up the mast.
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

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aquaplane
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Postby aquaplane » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:57 pm

Some good points chaps.

I know I need to see her out of the water to see what the blister situation is. If the vendor isn't interested in pulling her out I'll just wait a few weeks untill she comes out anyway.

The trailer has only done the trip from Waterlooville once and up to the overspill car park each year so the tyres will be like threepenny bits being stood so long. But the option of trailing for a Clyde/Mull cruise is attractive, and it's a yard trolley for winter storage so I'll probably try to keep it in the packge.

The chap was on the boat when we got there, he wasn't expecting us. He started the 10 Hp Volvo single cylinder fairly easily considering the single battery is a leisure battery. It did vibrate but that was put down to the single cylinder. He admitted it's sometimes harder first start of the season and when it's moving to be taken out as it's getting cold. I want to have a good look round without him there then I can poke at engine mountings and stuff.

I want to see the sails on too, preferably as a prelude to a test sail. The foresails are hank on, the main has round boom roller reefing that's never been used. There is also one of them big ones that goes out the front with a pole to one side.

There was a bit of water in the bilge, just enough to cover the keel bolts, I'll have a good look at them too when I'm on my own.

Now where are my ear defenders to cut out the laughing when I offer £5000, I may have the cheek to offer £6000, nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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ash
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Postby ash » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:30 pm

Has her price changed during the 3 years that she has been on brokerage?

Is she still being used.

This One is advertised at £6,950 and is supposedly clean, and has a Beta engine so fairly recent.

I would go in with a low price - you can go up more easily than down.

You won't be trailing 2,388 kgs behind the Peugot!

Hope it all works out well for you.

Ash

BTW - If you like, we could all go on and offer a really low price to make your offer more attractive.
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Pete Cooper
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Value

Postby Pete Cooper » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:35 pm

If she is as run down and negelcted as you say then she is worth nothing like the asking price. Have you done research to find out what others are advertised for? There was a reasonably tidy Tiger for sale in Troon a couple of years ago and at £10000(I think) it took a long time to sell. If it needs a headlining, engine work, presumably new cushions etc I would start at £5000. A survey will say high moisture content, which may or may not mean anything, but it is a bargaining point. If they say no, then you may want to increase the bid a little.

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Silkie
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Postby Silkie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:38 pm

I agree about a lower starting offer. It can always be increased and you've already spotted £1000 (and many hours) worth of repairs never mind improvements and the inevitable little surprises after the deal is done.

If you're planning to tow I would carefully investigate what kind of vehicle would be required. I thought about a trailer for Silkie, disp. 3,900lbs, but it appeared that only the very largest 4x4s had the neccessary GTW.
different colours made of tears

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aquaplane
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Postby aquaplane » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:42 pm

I looked at tow vehicle options when I first thought of going bigger. Running a Landrover 52 weeks a year isn't an option. I can rent one for £80 a weekend, plus another £80 insurance. For about £300 I can come to the West Coast for a cruise for 2 or 3 weeks, it's doable.

Of course a 2 week cruise on the old folks Espace would be cheaper, if I can persuade them that I won't break their pride and joy.

The brokerage lady didn't indicate any great rush "I will eat my hat if someone comes in this afternoon and offers £8750" was what she said I think. I'll play it cool for a bit, and keep looking.

Edit: There aren't that many Tigers about, and that one at £6950 is the cheapest I could find. I've looked at other 1970's 25' boats and nothing has tickled my fancy for 7000.

You are doing a good job of talking me out of it, or dropping the offer price at any rate.
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Rowana
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Postby Rowana » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:32 pm

How about this one -
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/BS09661 - £6,950
This one has a new engine etc.

Or this one -
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/BS08910 - £4,750


Personally I'd poke around as much as possible, then list the work that NEEDS doing, along with cost estimates. Assume you are getting a boatyard to do the work when doing the costings.

Then show this to the owner, and make an offer of £5,000. If he says "no", then you could offer £5,250 if you are really keen. Any more than that, you have more money than sense, IMHO.

Plenty other boats for sale.
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ash
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Westerly Tiger

Postby ash » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:53 am

This months PBO (No 502, October 2008) has an article on Westerlys.

About the Tiger it says

(John) Bulter's bigger 25ft (7.6m) Tiger was equally successful. Like its smaller sister (Cirrus), the Tiger has generous 2.6m (8ft9in) beam, full standing headroom and a dinette in the saloon. What's more its fin keel and sleek hull lines give performance a-plenty and Tigers still appear on the club racing circuit. Around 280 were built and, to this day, the Tiger looks crisp and smart. Butler did a good job and was, in many ways, well ahead of the times.

Ash
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lady_stormrider
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Postby lady_stormrider » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:21 am

As a galley slave I would just like to point out that I'm still hoping for something a bit bigger, namely something with:

29 triple boilers
a separate boudoir with a decorated fireplace
a staircase with a clock
Leonardo di Caprio

Or failing that - something with a liferaft and standing head room.
Became a full-time sailor at the end of May

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ljs
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Postby ljs » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:47 am

lady_stormrider wrote:As a galley slave I would just like to point out that I'm still hoping for something a bit bigger, namely something with:

29 triple boilers
a separate boudoir with a decorated fireplace
a staircase with a clock
Leonardo di Caprio




Not sure if the Titanic is for sale. But if so might be in a worse state than the Westerly

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Booby Trapper
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Postby Booby Trapper » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:52 am

Sorry to disappoint. IMHO it's way over priced. I would think £5000 would be too much to pay. You could be spending a lot more than you think.
It's been for sale for 3 years for a reason. There are plenty boats that size that can be had for around that price. Have you looked at Boatsandoutboards Do a search for yachts between 5K -7k you may be surprised. Remember the advertised price is usually what the owner would like to get not what they would take.
See this example.
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F190733

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aquaplane
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Postby aquaplane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:53 am

I've been doing more looking and tend to agree with the consensus that yon Tiger is overpriced. I don't know if it's a Windermere thing, they all seem to be top end price wise.

I'm going to have a look at some boats away from Windermere and see what they look like, and what transport costs look like too.

That second Tiger that Rowana found, I wondered why it kept coming up in the serches, I thought the pic was on the wrong advert. Reading it, it's a Tiger hull with wooden topsides, not what I'm looking for.

I don't know about having more money than sense, I'm a sailor, I don't have much of either. :lol:
Seminole.
Cheers Bob.

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Nick
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What about . . .

Postby Nick » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:34 pm

.
I am sure there are a few other boats that tick most of the boxes a Westerly Tiger ticks - maybe people have a few suggestions?

I'll start the ball rolling with the Cobra 750 - bags of space for 25ft and a great wee seaboat. I've taken one from the Clyde to the Outer Hebs with no qualms. Maybe a tad more expensive and harder to find tho' .
- Nick 8)

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