CHIRP 21

Forum for general cruising topics
User avatar
DaveS
Yellow Admiral
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:10 am
Boat Type: Seastream 34
Location: Me: Falkirk, Boat: Craobh
Contact:

CHIRP 21

Postby DaveS » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:42 am

Well, my CHIRP report from last year has been published in the current "Feedback" - fame or what? The "anonymised" version appears on pp 5/6, a more explicit version is in my blog: http://www.yotblog.com/DaveS/3721/ for 30/07/08.

Seriously, I believe that the CHIRP system is good, but obviously relies on submissions. If we all formally reported the worst instances of moronic behaviour experienced, rather than just moaning on the forums, it can only improve.
Image

User avatar
JohnBuch
Able Seaman
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:33 am
Boat Type: Albin Vega
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby JohnBuch » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:02 am

Good to see that you were even complimented by CHIRP for making the report.

Must ask - how do you get the clouds looking so great in the photographs on your blog? Do you sue a polarised filter? Loved your blog - really inspiring.

thanks

John
Albin Vega 3040 Fleur

Windfinder
Master Mariner
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:54 pm

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby Windfinder » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:28 am

DaveS wrote:Well, my CHIRP report from last year has been published in the current "Feedback" - fame or what? The "anonymised" version appears on pp 5/6, a more explicit version is in my blog: http://www.yotblog.com/DaveS/3721/ for 30/07/08.


With the greatest of genuine respect I don't really understand the problem. A power boat stonked past making a load of wash. There's no evidence he wasn't keeping a good lookout - indeed the fact he threaded his way between two boats suggests he was keeping a very goodlookout. Rude but not really dangerous unless someone falls over and breaks something but I suspect that's an unlikely consiquence.

Elsewhere on the Chirp report - and I may not have properly remebered this from when I read it yesterday - there was a boat at anchor & a tug and tow come too close. Now, leaving aside common sense - IMHO in the real world he should have up hooked and f**ked off - the other boat should have kept clear. All the nonsense about fishing seems crazy - fishing off your anchored boat doesn't make it a fishing boat. Nor AFAIK does failure to display an anchor ball mean you are not at anchor WRT the IRPCS. (Although I assume if a vessel hits you and you haven't got it up they might claim they didn't know you were at Anchor but that's different.)

So why did Chirp go on about showing fishing day shapes? I don't get it - it seems totally irrelevant. If you're anchored you're not underway you don't need a fishing shape.

User avatar
sahona
Admiral of the White
Posts: 1982
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:17 pm
Boat Type: Marcon Claymore
Location: Clyde

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby sahona » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm

We made #17 !
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

User avatar
DaveS
Yellow Admiral
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:10 am
Boat Type: Seastream 34
Location: Me: Falkirk, Boat: Craobh
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby DaveS » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:51 pm

[quote="WindfinderWith the greatest of genuine respect I don't really understand the problem. A power boat stonked past making a load of wash. There's no evidence he wasn't keeping a good lookout - indeed the fact he threaded his way between two boats suggests he was keeping a very goodlookout. Rude but not really dangerous unless someone falls over and breaks something but I suspect that's an unlikely consiquence.[/quote]

I suspect from your reply that you have only read the CHIRP report, not the somewhat more detailed story in the blog. Let's see if I can make a better attempt at a link. http://www.yotblog.com/DaveS/3721/ 30/07/08.

Just "rude" and a bit inconsiderate but no real problem you think? If the French party in the inflatable dinghy had been hit by that wash they would have almost certainly been capsised. Have a look at a chart of Caolas Scarp if you want a better understanding of the situation.

Can't seem to get the link to work properly, but a bit of copy & paste should do the trick.
Image

User avatar
ash
Yellow Admiral
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:14 pm
Boat Type: Moody 346
Location: Tarbert, East Loch Tarbert, Loch Fyne, Scotland

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby ash » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:44 pm

Found my paper copy of Chirp 21. Also found this website with on line copies, including back copies.

Chirp Maritime Feedback

DaveS

There appears to be fairly major differences in the detail between the Chirp report and your blog - which side the mobo passed, for example.

I don't think that staying at anchor would have been an advantage - it didn't benefit the French yacht.

I think that mobo wash is like the rest of life - there are some who don't give a sh1t about the consequences of their actions, and there are some who are just unaware of the consequence. A great number of mobo 'drivers' never appear to look behind them. In your case, the skipper was a 'professional' so neither description should have applied.

On Loch Lomond, I come across a lot of sport cruisers, with varying results. LL always had speed restrictions which should have protected anchorages from wash, and the area with speed restrictions has recently been increased.

If there's plenty of wind, and I'm heeled, and have plenty boat speed then I don't really care what the mobos do - in windy conditions there aren't many of them out anyway. :wink:

In very light conditions, the wash is more of a problem, the waves also reflect off the hard shoreline, so the surface is a very confused chop.

I've been anchored in a small bay, when a small sport cruiser started towing a youngster on an inflatable ring around me - he soon stopped and apologised when I roared at him. I don't think he realised what the consequence would be - he just saw it as a safer area to tow his youngster.

I'm happy for the mobo to stay on the plane, as they then create less wash, as long as they pass with sufficient room and make their intention obvious and early.

The worst wash is caused by the tight turns, and by the mobos which plough along, bow up - stern dug in, between displacement and plane speeds.

Some skippers slow down when passing, but then create a massive wash when getting back on the plane. What they forget, and don't see because they don't look back, is that because of the travel time of the wave the yacht is subject to the big wash.

The other difficulty is a difference in the perception of safe clearance distance. Cruising yotties will be different to a racing yottie with mobos different again.

Ash
"This is a sailing Forum"
Albin Vega "Mistral" is now sold

User avatar
DaveS
Yellow Admiral
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:10 am
Boat Type: Seastream 34
Location: Me: Falkirk, Boat: Craobh
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby DaveS » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:25 am

Thanks for the link, duly bookmarked. I have just read Sahona's on #17.

ash wrote:There appears to be fairly major differences in the detail between the Chirp report and your blog - which side the mobo passed, for example.

I don't think that staying at anchor would have been an advantage - it didn't benefit the French yacht.



Yes, the published version of the report is both anonymised and abbreviated, the latter removing a fair bit of detail including the various course changes before he passed. It also omitted what was one of the more interesting features of the incident: the geography prevented the mobo from simply giving us a wide berth. To avoid the shoals he had to pass us fairly close, so the issue boils down to appropriate speed. In their full response, which I was copied by CHIRP, the operating company state that their boat's heavy wash is a known problem, that they have procedures in place to prevent nuisance, but that in this instance their (claimed) speed reduction was insufficient.

Better to weigh anchor or wait? I'm not sure. At the time I wanted to be free to manoever rather than be a sitting target, so I definitely wanted the anchor up. This allowed us to increase the distance between us and the mobo, and then to minimise the effect of the wash, so it would seem to have been the right decision. It was only afterwards, thinking of "what if" scenarios, that it occurred to me that an anchor recovery problem could have put us in a difficult position.
Image

User avatar
DaveS
Yellow Admiral
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:10 am
Boat Type: Seastream 34
Location: Me: Falkirk, Boat: Craobh
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby DaveS » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:53 am

JohnBuch wrote:Must ask - how do you get the clouds looking so great in the photographs on your blog? Do you sue a polarised filter?
John


Don't know! All of last year's pictures were by my pal Adrian who's a semi-pro photographer, so SLR with different lenses etc. (I carefully put my camera "somewhere safe" a year ago, and only found it again a fortnight ago. :oops: ) The piccies for the previous year (Orkney trip) are mostly mine, and undoubtably not as good. I used a waterproof Pentax compact, which I have found fine for general snaps. I did, however, fit a viewfinder converter hood to the viewing screen which cannot be seen in sunlight.
Image

User avatar
Alcyone
Old Salt
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:23 am
Boat Type: Cobra 850, Cardiff and Dale
Location: Briton Ferry, South Wales

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby Alcyone » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

I have some friends who run RIB and Motorboat trips on the West coast of Wales. It's in an area where about 4 other companies do likewise. We dive in the area, so this sort of problem is worse for us, as we are often in the water when they come flying past.

It's money. In the summer, during the six weeks the kids are off school, they run 8-10 1 hour trips a day, 12 people, £20 a head. If they see dolphin, porpoise or Whale, they stop for the punters to see them. The inevitable result is that they then have to race back for their next pickup.

Reporting their activity to their bosses seemed to help little. Chasing after them and giving them some verbals about not knowing what an 'A' flag means and accusing them of bad seamanship in front of their passengers hits the mark. Not an option, if you are sailing.

It's rubbish, really, but there is so much money to be made in such a small space of time, and so many locals depend on the work, I can't see it improving, until a tragedy occurs, of course.

User avatar
sahona
Admiral of the White
Posts: 1982
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:17 pm
Boat Type: Marcon Claymore
Location: Clyde

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby sahona » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:22 am

The Kirsty McCall story should be part of the mandatory syllabus for power boaters.
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

User avatar
Alcyone
Old Salt
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:23 am
Boat Type: Cobra 850, Cardiff and Dale
Location: Briton Ferry, South Wales

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby Alcyone » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:55 pm

sahona wrote:The Kirsty McCall story should be part of the mandatory syllabus for power boaters.



Well, for everyone. I've actually surfaced from a wreck dive and had a forty foot yacht sail between my buddy and myself, 10 yards apart. Our dive boat was 20 feet away, shouting and pointing at our A flag.

My partner was helming the dive Rib. Since this we have agreed always to put the RIB in the path of any oncoming vessel, rather than allow them to run over divers. They usually steer away. Some still shout, and appear confused when we point at the A flag.

Fact is, some people just don't know the rules. I have hence developed a very defensive attitude towards my boating.

User avatar
Telo
Admiral of the Red
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:27 pm
Boat Type: Vancouver 34 Pilot
Location: Bampotterie-sur-mer
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby Telo » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:41 pm

You're probably correct about the skippers of some passing boats not knowing the rules. I'm not defending that at all, but, in fairness, I've seen very few dive boats display the correct shape.

We see dive boats regularly in our area, and always keep clear of them, but I've rarely seeing anything except a small A flag, which is useless if is just lying limply in a feeble zephyr. If there is a breeze, an A flag is invisible to anyone that is directly upwind. Even using decent binoculars, it is often difficult to make out whether or not an A flag is on display.

I'm not trolling or trying to stir up the pot, but I genuinely do believe that most dive masters and dive boat helms also need to start properly complying with the ColRegs.

User avatar
claymore
Admiral of the Green
Posts: 4286
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:55 pm
Boat Type: Claymore
Location: Ardfern or Lancashire

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby claymore » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:07 pm

I find it particularly irritating that dive boats often park right in the way of where we are trying to get to.
Regards
Claymore
:goatd

User avatar
sahona
Admiral of the White
Posts: 1982
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:17 pm
Boat Type: Marcon Claymore
Location: Clyde

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby sahona » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:11 am

Image
http://trooncruisingclub.org/ 20' - 30' Berths available, Clyde.
Cruising, racing, maintenance facilities. Go take a look, you know you want to.

User avatar
Telo
Admiral of the Red
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:27 pm
Boat Type: Vancouver 34 Pilot
Location: Bampotterie-sur-mer
Contact:

Re: CHIRP 21

Postby Telo » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:47 pm

sahona wrote:Image


I suppose we could have a Golden Spirtle Award.

;-)


Return to “Shooting the breeze”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests